|
|
Subscribe / Log in / New account

Bob Young on freedom, control, and the GPL

Benefits for LWN subscribers

The primary benefit from subscribing to LWN is helping to keep us publishing, but, beyond that, subscribers get immediate access to all site content and access to a number of extra site features. Please sign up today!

By Nathan Willis
January 14, 2015
LCA 2015

Bob Young, known to the free-software community as the co-founder of Red Hat, founder of the print-on-demand service Lulu, and creator of the non-profit Center For The Public Domain, delivered the morning keynote address on the first full day of linux.conf.au (LCA) 2015 in Auckland. Although Young confessed several times to not being as plugged-in to the Linux and free-software economy as he once was, he had plenty of wisdom to dispense to the crowd, in particular by looking back on which (perhaps unexpected) factors allowed Red Hat to become a successful enterprise in the face of large competitors selling proprietary software.

Young's talk was laid-back, informal, and peppered with wisecracks and comedic stories—he introduced himself as "the light entertainment interlude" between the week's other keynotes from Eben Moglen and Linus Torvalds, and he consistently referred to himself as "just a typewriter salesman," to pick out two examples from many. But whatever description one might use, Young oversaw the rise of Red Hat in the early 1990s from a small software shop to a major IT vendor, and at the start of that process, it was far from a proven strategy that free software could compete for customers in the commercial space.

[Bob Young]

Young said he was initially a bigger skeptic about free software than Bill Gates, but while he was editing an early software-development newsletter, he repeatedly heard from developers that free software was what they wanted to hear more about. By the time Linux 1.0 was released, he decided to find out for himself how it all worked, so he went to meet with Richard Stallman, Donald Becker, and other "really smart guys" and figure out why altruism—an idea that Young had never thought would be capable of spawning a sophisticated technological system—seemed to be succeeding.

Each of those encounters had its own lesson: Stallman advocated the egalitarian notion that each free-software developer contributed according to their ability and reaped rewards in accordance to their skill level; Becker argued that sharing software was simply "the right thing to do;" Becker's boss Thomas Sterling explained the notion of the barter economy, saying "I contribute a driver and get back a gigabyte of software with the license to do what I want with it—and you think they are exploiting me?" But what finally clicked for Young seemed to be what he heard from engineers: that free software gives them control over their own system, and control was the one thing that proprietary software vendors were unwilling to part with.

That idea was what led to the formation of Red Hat. It was fundamentally against the proprietary IT vendors' business models to sell a product that allowed the customer to have control, so Red Hat had an immediate competitive advantage against all of them. Young added that he recently stopped by Red Hat's offices (his first visit in a long time) to try and ensure that he didn't put something problematic into his LCA talk that would cause the company's stock price to plummet. On that visit, he said he was thrilled to see that the corporate messaging remains essentially the same: customers are treated as partners with the company; giving them control over their systems is still paramount.

Young then spoke briefly about software licenses. He has long been a staunch advocate of the GPL, he said, but not because he has detailed opinions of the differences between it and other, similar licenses. Rather, he said, he learned early on that customers do not care about the details of free-software licenses, and that diving into an explanation of them was the fastest way to send a potential customer running toward the competition. (In an aside, Young made it clear that even during his days at Red Hat, he never considered other Linux distributors to be "the competition;" he used the word only to refer to the proprietary vendors.)

With the GPL, everyone knows what the rules are, more or less, so the debate is over quickly. They might not actually know the rules, he added, but they think they do, which amounts to the same thing. As a "business guy," he said, he is always trying to simplify the "pitch"—the GPL tells everyone "what we're about," so it has the greatest impact. Furthermore, he advised developers not to waste any time trying to come up with a new, specially-crafted free-software license for their project. Whatever effort it takes to write that new license corresponds to creating more complications for the potential customer. In the end, it is a net loss.

Young took a few questions from the audience at the end, some about Red Hat and some about Lulu. The two companies are quite different on the surface, but Young explained that they are both attempts to do the same thing: give customers control over what they want to do. When Red Hat was competing for customers with Microsoft, he said, Microsoft was totally unwilling to offer customers the control that Red Hat was, so Red Hat gained a lot of contracts and grew into an enormous enterprise of its own.

Lulu is different, he noted, in the sense that the competition—most notably Amazon—has seen Lulu's business model and responded by offering its own, similar service. Thus, Lulu has a different kind of battle to fight. It is still a really fun project, he said, but time will tell whether or not what it offers to authors is significantly better than Amazon's pitch, only marginally better, or if Amazon comes up with something better.

Several audience members asked about how the community should respond to resistance toward software-freedom issues. One asked specifically how to communicate free-software ideals to politicians; another asked about businesses' resistance toward the GPL. On the political front, Young said that there are a number of players today who take the correct approach (Lawrence Lessig, the EFF, and Public Knowledge, for example). They emphasize transparency, which is important to politicians. But Young also advised everyone listening to understand that they, too, have a role to play in such conversations. If you ever meet a politician, he said, make sure the politician knows what you consider important. Money in politics is a problem, but all politicians ultimately care more about votes than money.

As for businesses' resistance toward the GPL, Young said that it would be better to ask Moglen or Karen Sandler for the real details. But he noted that in the early days, Stallman had considered putting his software into the public domain. That would not work, Stallman concluded, since the "public domain" is not a concept that is protected against abuse (in this case, against turning a public-domain program into a proprietary one). The GPL and the concept of "copyleft" that it implements, he said, create the legal protection for the public domain. There are other licenses, but there is no more effective tool for the "real" public domain. And that real public domain is the thing that gives users (or customers) control, which, in turn, is the one thing proprietary software cannot offer.

"Control" as Young articulated it in his talk is, essentially, the same idea as the freedom that has always been central to free software. But it is interesting to hear it described in such different terms. Young jokingly called himself "an evil capitalist" several times, and perhaps control is terminology that fits better into vendor-to-customer conversations and sales pitches than does freedom. But Red Hat's success over the years certainly demonstrates that Young's way of explaining the issues is one that resonates with quite a few users.

[The author would like to thank LCA 2015 for travel assistance to Auckland.]

Index entries for this article
Conferencelinux.conf.au/2015


(Log in to post comments)

Bob Young on freedom, control, and the GPL

Posted Jan 19, 2015 16:12 UTC (Mon) by intgr (subscriber, #39733) [Link]

For anyone who's interested, here's the video:
http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2015/OGGB_FP...

Business-Friendly GPL

Posted Feb 11, 2015 5:56 UTC (Wed) by ldo (guest, #40946) [Link]

The GPL is one of those things that businesses instinctively hate if they haven’t come across it before, and yet in practice they find it a great way of enforcing fairness.

Think about the obvious question a business will ask about contributing to Free Software if it has never done so before: “Why should I help my competitors for free and let them rip me off?”

And the answer is, with non-copyleft licences, they can rip you off. But with copyleft, they can only redistribute the software on the same terms as you do. Which means everybody is on a level playing field, no-one can take unfair advantage of anybody else.

And the proof of it is in the spectacular success of Free Software projects like the Linux kernel and SAMBA—think how many devices worldwide ship with those pieces of software built into them. Developed and sold by profit-making businesses. Who do not find the licences “business-unfriendly”.

Business-Friendly GPL

Posted Feb 11, 2015 7:32 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

> And the answer is, with non-copyleft licences, they can rip you off. But with copyleft, they can only redistribute the software on the same terms as you do. Which means everybody is on a level playing field, no-one can take unfair advantage of anybody else.
With a honest copyleft license (i.e. GPL with no dual licensing tricks) the competitor can take the software and start "selling" it themselves.

With a non-copyleft license you're free to go with the 'open core' strategy.

Business-Friendly GPL

Posted Feb 11, 2015 12:54 UTC (Wed) by spender (guest, #23067) [Link]

In the case where the software is part of a web service, and therefore not "conveyed" to end users, then everyone's most certainly not on a level playing field as the code wasn't licensed under the AGPL.

As long as the GPL has no enforcement teeth due to organizations continuing to settle out of court, leaving the average developer unable to afford the legal fees to assert their license against violating corporations, the GPL will unfortunately continue to create an uneven playing field. What good is a license if you have no hope of enforcing it against companies that treat the code as if it were BSD? It should be *more* unfriendly to these businesses so that the ones that do follow the rules aren't effectively penalized for it.

-Brad

Business-Friendly GPL

Posted Feb 11, 2015 13:12 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

Yeah, but then you have people like Landley who say the enforcement that *is* done is actively harmful instead. So if you believe him, either it has no teeth because no one actually want a to put something in case law, or it can't have teeth because if it does, companies just ignore it altogether (versus even retro compliance). At least that's how I understand his position (feel free to correct me of you're reading this Rob).

Business-Friendly GPL

Posted Feb 11, 2015 13:49 UTC (Wed) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link]

Settling out of court (instead of just being asked to get lost) is enforcement of the license working, and better than going to court.

Re: As long as the GPL has no enforcement teeth

Posted Feb 11, 2015 20:49 UTC (Wed) by ldo (guest, #40946) [Link]

On the contrary, the GPL has plenty of enforcement teeth.

Re: As long as the GPL has no enforcement teeth

Posted Feb 11, 2015 22:48 UTC (Wed) by spender (guest, #23067) [Link]

Do you have personal experience in the matter in the US? I'm not interested in arguing this, as I've experienced it first hand vs reading online about situations mainly taken to court in Germany. Most of the cases are in Germany because it's easy to simply stop the violations there. However, there's little room for pressing for significant damages in Germany (other than obtaining attorney fees). Likewise in the US it's the stated goal of the SFLC to simply achieve compliance with the GPL.

What this tells companies is that there's no real risk to not obeying the GPL. Further, we're not empowering the community to formally register their copyrights to be able to file suit and win attorney fees and damages for infringement. There aren't any big cases on the law books in the US that I'm aware of that would give any company serious pause before willfully violating the GPL vs just ignoring it until they get caught and counting anything after that as a trivial cost of business.

We need cases on the books showing exactly what is required of a "written offer" so companies can't simply list a copy of a single version of the GPL license and act as if they're acting in good faith to a US judge. We need more cases showing the termination clause of the GPLv2 in action.

This is what I refer to as lacking teeth -- many companies are profiting enormously off of GPL software and aren't holding up their end of the bargain. We shouldn't be resorting to essentially begging companies to honor the license of the software they're exploiting for profit. There needs to be real damages and real consequences. I hope one day for a new organization that will fight the cases as they should be fought, with the added benefit of funding exploited developers from the proceeds of suing the greedy corporations exploiting them.

-Brad

Re: As long as the GPL has no enforcement teeth

Posted Feb 12, 2015 1:01 UTC (Thu) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

> Further, we're not empowering the community to formally register their copyrights to be able to file suit and win attorney fees and damages for infringement.

I don't understand what we would need to do to "empower" people to do this. It seems to me that this is up to the individual programmers, some do, most don't.

Keep in mind that we have some pretty annoying copyright agreements that developers need to sign before they can contribute code. Not in the kernel, but the FSF has had their policies for years, with the claim being that this gives them standing to sue. Why bother jumping through all these hoops if it doesn't actually achieve anything.


Copyright © 2015, Eklektix, Inc.
This article may be redistributed under the terms of the Creative Commons CC BY-SA 4.0 license
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds